EUforum-full

Re: Flaming and IRC

EUforum@topica.com (Euler German) — Mon, 12 May 2008 03:11:00 GMT

posted by: Euler German 


> On 10 May 2008 at 18:34, Jason Gade wrote (maybe snipped):

> > Jason Gade wrote:
> > > 
> > > Since I've never used Euphoria IRC, I never realized that we had a
> > > problem with flaming. I mean, this mailing list has to be about
> > > the tamest spot on the Internet that I hang out.
> > 
> > YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH!!!!11!11
> > 
> > Oh, "tamest." Sorry.
> 
> Heh. Now that's funny.
> 

Duh, didn't catch the joke...

-- 
_
_| euler f german
_| sete lagoas, mg, brazil
_| efgerman{AT}gmail{DOT}com

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (Euler German) — Mon, 12 May 2008 03:11:00 GMT

posted by: Euler German 


> On 11 May 2008 at 3:29, Derek Parnell wrote (maybe snipped):

> Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
> > 
> > Continue has been added to Euphoria SVN. Continue is Exit's sibling.
> 
> 
> But I seriously hope it is going to be renamed to something a lot more
> natural such as 'next'.
> 

Why not "loop"?

-- 
_
_| euler f german
_| sete lagoas, mg, brazil
_| efgerman{AT}gmail{DOT}com

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Re: Debug Block?

EUforum@topica.com (Jason Gade) — Mon, 12 May 2008 01:56:00 GMT

posted by: Jason Gade 


I haven't read the entire proposal in detail, but wouldn't "with debug" and
"without debug" be more consistent with the way we currently do things?

It's an instruction to the interpreter, like "with trace" etc. instead of another
kind of construct.

--
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple
system that works.
--John Gall's 15th law of Systemantics.

"Premature optimization is the root of all evil in programming."
--C.A.R. Hoare

j.

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (Kat) — Mon, 12 May 2008 01:56:00 GMT

posted by: Kat 


Derek Parnell wrote:
> 
> Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
>  I suppose a more detailed study could be done via the TIBOE
> > language index, but here are my findings:
> > 
> > python = continue
> > c = continue
> > vb = continue
> > d = continue
> > basic = continue
> > pascal = continue
> > php = continue
> > perl = next
> > javascript = continue
> > tcl = continue
> 
> But aren't we supposed to be learning from the mistakes of the past?

Yeas, all these extra words, meaning different things to different people, when
"goto" is so clear and direct and simple. 


Kat

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Re: Debug Block?

EUforum@topica.com (Derek Parnell) — Mon, 12 May 2008 01:46:00 GMT

posted by: Derek Parnell 


Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
> I think it's a good one.

Me too. It would be similar to the D Programming Language's facility...

 debug
 {
    ... statements  ...
 }

Some points to consider:
If we use some 'block' syntax, the block needs to be able to span routines as
well as statements, in order to comment out routines just used for debugging.
Eg.

  debug
    procedure Logger(sequence text)
      -- write text to logging file.
    end procedure
  end debug

or even ...

   debug
     include stddebug.e as dbg
     dbg:init("My App", "/var/debug.log", "append")
   end debug

If we use the line prefix style of syntax, then I suggest a double dot, which
is analogous with the double dash for comments. It also visually stands out
more.

     .. include stddebug.e as dbg
     .. dbg:init("My App", "/var/debug.log", "append")

Also, some way of turning it off/on from the command line instead of having
to edit source code, should be considered.

e.g.
   exu myapp.e --eu:debug=on

Finally, to borrow from D language, we could support debug variations.

  debug(stage1)
     dbg:log("Beginning Stage 1")
     vLimit = 1
  end debug

  debug(stage2)
     dbg:log("Beginning Stage 2")
     vLimit = 25
  end debug

and invoked by ...

   ex myapp.e --eu:debug=stage1

-- 
Derek Parnell
Melbourne, Australia
Skype name: derek.j.parnell

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (Jeremy Cowgar) — Sun, 11 May 2008 23:07:00 GMT

posted by: Jeremy Cowgar 

Derek Parnell wrote:
> 
> But aren't we supposed to be learning from the mistakes of the past?
>

Hm. #1, I'm not entirely sure continue is a mistake. #2, there is nothing inherently
evil about continue and tradition should carry quite a bit of weight in this
area. If there was a major flaw, then we should learn but I'm not seeing a huge
flaw.

Again, please understand, I'm just playing the "devils advocate" trying to promote
a healthy debate about it. That's how we will do a service to Euphoria, however,
I *think* I am on the side of continue, but am waffling. However, the debate
is far from over.

I do think it's possible, that if we choose next, in the future we may look
back on things and treat the decision of going to next as one of those things
in the past we should learn a lesson from.

Another thought that just came to my mind is there is great talk about being
able to embed Euphoria into C and use Euphoria as a scripting language to extend
existing C applications. If that happens, we will have more and more C programmers
using Euphoria. Thus, that should bear a *little* (probably not a lot) weight
in the decision of next/continue.

Probably what we should do is collect pro's and con's, then create a summary
of those on the wiki. Then reference the wiki and make a decision.

So, any pro's and con's out there people want to have recorded that has not
already been said?

For continue, 
pros:
  1. standard
cons:
  1. what does it mean?

For next,
pros:
  1. meaning is clearer (next iteration)
cons:
  1. use is common in variable names or function names (i.e. any iterator, list,
database connection, etc...)
  2. not standard or traditional
  3. conflicts with other common languages such as basic, VBA, ASP (yes, all
Microsoft).

--
Jeremy Cowgar
http://jeremy.cowgar.com

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Debug Block?

EUforum@topica.com (Jeremy Cowgar) — Sun, 11 May 2008 22:47:00 GMT

posted by: Jeremy Cowgar 


I was looking through the feature requests on the SF.net page trying to clean
things up. A lot of old suggestions exist, some of which were already implemented,
so I closed them.  Anyway, I ran across a feature request by CK Lester and figured
I would bring his suggestion to the forum for discussion so we can either implement
(do not think it would be hard) or clear the suggestion. No reason to have it
sit there in limbo for no reason. Keep in mind, I am just brining this to peoples
attention. It's not my idea, although, I think it's a good one.

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1771686&group_id=182827&atid=902785

He is basically suggesting the ability to remove debug code in the final copies
of your Euphoria source. His suggestion is instead of:


--- code
if DEBUG then
    printf(1, "Loop var is %d\n", {loopVar})
end if
--- code


which would be included in your final code, therefore causing extra processing
for no reason (has to check DEBUG condition). His idea is that a debug statement
be added:


with debug

--- code
. printf(1, "Loop var is %d\n", {loopVar})
--- code


His suggestion was any line starting with a . would be debug code. Thus, when
with debug or without debug is in the source code, the lines starting with .
would not even be emitted to the final versions of your Euphoria programmer,
thus, debug code would cause no slow down in your final version of your app.

I also thought possibly instead of . you could:


with debug

debug
    printf(1, "Loop var is %d\n", {loopVar})
    -- more debug code
end debug


Over all I do not see any bad side effects, only benefits, but wanted to get
your input. I do think a more defined block, such as debug ... end debug would
make the source code a bit cleaner and more easily understood, but everyone
can go read CK's feature request on the SF URL listed above.

--
Jeremy Cowgar
http://jeremy.cowgar.com

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (Derek Parnell) — Sun, 11 May 2008 22:37:00 GMT

posted by: Derek Parnell 


Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
 I suppose a more detailed study could be done via the TIBOE
> language index, but here are my findings:
> 
> python = continue
> c = continue
> vb = continue
> d = continue
> basic = continue
> pascal = continue
> php = continue
> perl = next
> javascript = continue
> tcl = continue

But aren't we supposed to be learning from the mistakes of the past?

-- 
Derek Parnell
Melbourne, Australia
Skype name: derek.j.parnell

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Re: BEZIER CURVES

EUforum@topica.com (Derek Parnell) — Sun, 11 May 2008 22:35:00 GMT

posted by: Derek Parnell 

Les Rogers wrote:
> I am working on a Bezier Curve Program.
> Cannot make it "rotate" 
> Any Help ??

Sure, and by the way I have a problem with a program I'm working on too. Can
you fix that for me?

But seriously folks ...

The very first problem you have here is that you haven't given us anything to
work on ...

We can't see your code.
We can't see what it *is* doing.
We can't see the messages, if any, you are getting.
We can't see what specific efforts you have made to resolve it yourself.

-- 
Derek Parnell
Melbourne, Australia
Skype name: derek.j.parnell

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (Jeremy Cowgar) — Sun, 11 May 2008 22:28:00 GMT

posted by: Jeremy Cowgar 

Derek Parnell wrote:
> 
> ... and yet there are a lot of people who are actually using Eu as a first-ish
> language.

And by teaching the continue, we are not doing them a dis-service. Most programmers
today are going to be multi-lingual. Not all, but most.

Please see the post:

http://www.openeuphoria.org/EUforum/m20765.html

Which lists a few languages that I researched. I found 1 that uses next, and
it is perl, but it has a rather complex looping interface such as a continue
block that contains next, last, redo and retry.

--
Jeremy Cowgar
http://jeremy.cowgar.com

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (Derek Parnell) — Sun, 11 May 2008 22:17:00 GMT

posted by: Derek Parnell 

Mike Sywensky wrote:

> Although it may not make as much sense for someone
> learing euphoria as a first language,

 ... or still make sense after years of usage.

>  I imagine most people are not using it as a first language.  

... and yet there are a lot of people who are actually using Eu as a first-ish
language.

> My guess is most people are coming from other languages such as VB or C.  

What is this 'C' thing you speak of and what has Victoria Bitter got to do with
programming?  ;-)

-- 
Derek Parnell
Melbourne, Australia
Skype name: derek.j.parnell

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Re: BEZIER CURVES

EUforum@topica.com (don cole) — Sun, 11 May 2008 22:15:00 GMT

posted by: don cole 


ChrisBurch3 wrote:
> 
> Les Rogers wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Hi 
> > 
> > I am working on a Bezier Curve Program.
> > 
> > I have the curve !!!
> > 
> > Cannot make it "rotate" 
> > 
> > Any Help ??
> 
> Try rotating your head 90 degrees either to the left or right - lot easier
> than writing nasty algorithms. The point of rotation should be a line drawn
> roughly from the bcak of your neck to the throat (I would use ventral and
> dorsal, but this is a computing forum)
> 
> Oh, and remember to look at the screen while doing it.
> 
> Happy rotating!
> 
> Chris

  You could stick one finger in your mouth and one finger .......Ah, you 
know the rest of it.

  In all seriousness why not draw the curve to a pixmap and rotate that with

win32dib.

Don Cole

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (c.k.lester) — Sun, 11 May 2008 17:58:00 GMT

posted by: c.k.lester 


Matt Lewis wrote:
> c.k.lester wrote:
> > I still like 'next' better because it's more appropriate and I only have to
> > type 4 letters instead of 8. That's a 50% increase in efficiency.
> And let's be honest here, folks, CK needs all the help he can get...

Amen to that!

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (Jason Gade) — Sun, 11 May 2008 17:55:00 GMT

posted by: Jason Gade 


Matt Lewis wrote:
> 
> Mike Sywensky wrote:
> > 
> > Although it may not make as much sense for someone learing euphoria as a first
> > language, I imagine most people are not using it as a first language.  
> > 
> > My guess is most people are coming from other languages such as VB or C.  'continue'
> > is what is used by both languages.  That is my vote.
> 
> I've used both 'continue' and 'next'.  Either one is fine by me.
> 
> Matt

I prefer continue, I think, for reasons that others have mentioned -- existing
use of "next" as an identifier.

--
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple
system that works.
--John Gall's 15th law of Systemantics.

"Premature optimization is the root of all evil in programming."
--C.A.R. Hoare

j.

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Re: sets for sequence.e?

EUforum@topica.com (CChris) — Sun, 11 May 2008 17:15:00 GMT

posted by: CChris 


Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
> 
> CChris wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > There is no .htx documentation yet, but it is in sets.e and would simply need
> > to move from here to there with some format tags. I'm not sure I have time to
> > do that next week (53 entries).
> 
> Really? 53 new functions?
> 

Yep:
* binary search (1)
* sets:
** construction (2)
** elements (4)
** parts (4)
** basic operations (4)
* maps
** construction (3)
** properties (3)
** direct mapping (3)
** reverse mapping (3)
** operations (4)
* products (7)
* operations, ie binary ops:
** construction (2)
** properties(2)
** units (7)
** other (4)

If you downloaded stes.zip, the summary is in sets_spec.txt. I'll email it if
needed.

I thought graph handling would be better in a separate lib, which would clearly
use this one. Nothing written so fa about it.

CChris

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (Matt Lewis) — Sun, 11 May 2008 17:06:00 GMT

posted by: Matt Lewis 


c.k.lester wrote:
> 
> Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
> > c.k.lester wrote:
> > > I vote for 'next.' I think VBA uses next and I use VBA at work.
> > VBA does not use next as a continue. It uses next as a end for...
> 
> Well, you can see I never use a continue construct. :D
> 
> I still like 'next' better because it's more appropriate and I only have to
> type 4 letters instead of 8. That's a 50% increase in efficiency.

And let's be honest here, folks, CK needs all the help he can get...

Matt

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (Matt Lewis) — Sun, 11 May 2008 17:04:00 GMT

posted by: Matt Lewis 


Mike Sywensky wrote:
> 
> Although it may not make as much sense for someone learing euphoria as a first
> language, I imagine most people are not using it as a first language.  
> 
> My guess is most people are coming from other languages such as VB or C.  'continue'
> is what is used by both languages.  That is my vote.

I've used both 'continue' and 'next'.  Either one is fine by me.

Matt

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (yuku) — Sun, 11 May 2008 16:46:00 GMT

posted by: yuku 


'next' is more likely to be used as a variable name
- linked list node's next
- next entry
- next coming input

so i vote for 'continue'.

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Re: Naming of "continue"

EUforum@topica.com (CChris) — Sun, 11 May 2008 16:45:00 GMT

posted by: CChris 


Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
> 
> We can name it whatever. I do not really care, what I like is the functionality 
> 
> The reason I choose continue was due to familiarity. Most languages that have
> such a keyword call it continue. I can see where either would work... i.e.
> 
> continue -- at top of loop
> next -- next loop iteration
> 
> But, taken literally, what do either really mean?
> 
> continue -- execution?
> continue -- with next token?
> 
> or
> 
> next -- token?
> next -- statement?
> 
> So, after thinking about it, I felt neither was a perfect name, but continue
> had on it's side name recognition. Neither was self evident but at least most
> people know what continue is. Other languages that have a next keyword are usually
> part of the for loop:
> 
> for 1 to 10 do
>   print "Hello"
> next
> 
> They are not put mid block, but are the same thing as our end for or end do.
> 
> Oh, I also did some research and I found several uses of function name next()
> for iterating through lists, tokens, etc...
> 
> Other possible names I came up with are:
> 
> repeat, again, hm... tried to come up with others with no luck.
> 
> Out of: continue, next, repeat, again ... I think repeat or again makes much
> more sense than continue or next. Here are definitions:
> 
>   continue
>        v 1: continue a certain state, condition, or activity; "Keep on
>             working!"; "We continued to work into the night"; "Keep
>             smiling"; "We went on working until well past midnight"
>        4: move ahead; travel onward in time or space; "We proceeded
>           towards Washington"; "She continued in the direction of
>           the hills"; "We are moving ahead in time now"
> 
>   next
>        adj 1: nearest in space or position; immediately adjoining without
>               intervening space; "had adjacent rooms"; "in the next
>               room"; "the person sitting next to me"; "our rooms
>               were side by side" [syn: adjacent, side by side(p)]
>        3: immediately following in time or order; "the following day";
>           "next in line"; "the next president"; "the next item on
>           the list" [syn: following]
> 
>   repeat
>        n : an event that repeats; "the events today were a repeat of
>            yesterday's" [syn: repetition]
>        v 1: to say, state, or perform again; "She kept reiterating her
>             request" [syn: reiterate, ingeminate, iterate, restate,
>              retell]
>        2: make or do or perform again; "He could never replicate his
>           brilliant performance of the magic trick" [syn: duplicate,
>            reduplicate, double, replicate]
>        3: happen or occur again; "This is a recurring story" [syn: recur]
>        4: to say again or imitate; "followers echoing the cries of
>           their leaders" [syn: echo]
>        5: do over; "They would like to take it over again" [syn: take
>           over]
>        6: repeat an earlier theme of a composition [syn: reprise, reprize,
>            recapitulate]
> 
>   again
>        adv : anew; "she tried again"; "they rehearsed the scene again"
>              [syn: once again, once more, over again]
> 1.        once more; another time; anew; in addition: Will you spell your name again,
> please?
> 2.        in an additional case or instance; moreover; besides; furthermore.
> 3.        on the other hand: It might happen, and again it might not.
> 4.        back; in return; in reply: to answer again.
> 5.        to the same place or person: to return again.
> 
> Notice a few: next #1, #4 (there were other definitions that did not apply at
> all to us, same as other words, so I did not include them). repeat #2, #3, #5.
> Again did not have a good definition on dict.org, so I got it from dictionary.com...
> again #1, #4
> 
> So, if we were to change from continue and loose the familiarity of it, I would
> vote for repeat or again, not next. next has all the same problems as continue,
> plus it is used in other languages as a keyword that does something different,
> and it's a common function name.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> --
> Jeremy Cowgar
> http://jeremy.cowgar.com

The problem I see with repeat is that, in Pascal/Ada, it starts a loop with
exit test at the end, equivalent to the do ... while construct in C. Euphoria
doesn't have it, it would be convenient, I think, even though you can always
emulate it as

while 1 do
--...
    if exit_condition() then 
        exit 
    end if
end while

which would be more easily coded as

repeat
--...
-- until exit_condition()


again means: the _same_ thing another time. I'd use it to repeat the last iteration,
without testing or incrementing, ie something as much the same as the current
iteration. I called it retry.

CChris

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (c.k.lester) — Sun, 11 May 2008 16:40:00 GMT

posted by: c.k.lester 

Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
> c.k.lester wrote:
> > I vote for 'next.' I think VBA uses next and I use VBA at work.
> VBA does not use next as a continue. It uses next as a end for...

Well, you can see I never use a continue construct. :D

I still like 'next' better because it's more appropriate and I only have to
type 4 letters instead of 8. That's a 50% increase in efficiency.

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (Jeremy Cowgar) — Sun, 11 May 2008 16:37:00 GMT

posted by: Jeremy Cowgar 


c.k.lester wrote:
> I vote for 'next.' I think VBA uses next and I use VBA at work.

VBA does not use next as a continue. It uses next as a end for...


for int i = 1 to 10
   ' do some code here
next

To implement continue in VBA you use goto...

for int i = 1 to 10
    if i = 5 goto continue
    ' do some code
continue:
    ' Label right next to the end of the for loop
next

So, next in Euphoria would conflict totally w/your next in VBA.

--
Jeremy Cowgar
http://jeremy.cowgar.com

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Re: BEZIER CURVES

EUforum@topica.com (ChrisBurch3) — Sun, 11 May 2008 16:35:00 GMT

posted by: ChrisBurch3 

Les Rogers wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi 
> 
> I am working on a Bezier Curve Program.
> 
> I have the curve !!!
> 
> Cannot make it "rotate" 
> 
> Any Help ??

Try rotating your head 90 degrees either to the left or right - lot easier
than writing nasty algorithms. The point of rotation should be a line drawn
roughly from the bcak of your neck to the throat (I would use ventral and
dorsal, but this is a computing forum)

Oh, and remember to look at the screen while doing it.

Happy rotating!

Chris

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (c.k.lester) — Sun, 11 May 2008 16:27:00 GMT

posted by: c.k.lester 


Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
> 
> I agree after conversations here, looking in dictionary and comparing to other
> devices, that next makes sense, but most people who program do not program in
> one language, thus, similarity to a degree is good.

I vote for 'next.' I think VBA uses next and I use VBA at work.

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Re: BEZIER CURVES

EUforum@topica.com (Bernie Ryan) — Sun, 11 May 2008 16:15:00 GMT

posted by: Bernie Ryan 



which OS  DOS WINDOWS LINUX ???

Bernie

My files in archive:
WMOTOR, XMOTOR, W32ENGIN, MIXEDLIB, EU_ENGIN, WIN32ERU, WIN32API 

Can be downloaded here:
http://www.rapideuphoria.com/cgi-bin/asearch.exu?dos=on&win=on&lnx=on&gen=on&keywords=bernie+ryan

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (Bernie Ryan) — Sun, 11 May 2008 16:15:00 GMT

posted by: Bernie Ryan 



NEXT takes the least amount of typing.

Bernie

My files in archive:
WMOTOR, XMOTOR, W32ENGIN, MIXEDLIB, EU_ENGIN, WIN32ERU, WIN32API 

Can be downloaded here:
http://www.rapideuphoria.com/cgi-bin/asearch.exu?dos=on&win=on&lnx=on&gen=on&keywords=bernie+ryan

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (Jeremy Cowgar) — Sun, 11 May 2008 16:02:00 GMT

posted by: Jeremy Cowgar 

Mike Sywensky wrote:
>  
> Although it may not make as much sense for someone learing euphoria as a first
> language, I imagine most people are not using it as a first language.  
> 
> My guess is most people are coming from other languages such as VB or C.  'continue'
> is what is used by both languages.  That is my vote.

I just went to the computer language shootout and looked at the more popular
languages there. I suppose a more detailed study could be done via the TIBOE
language index, but here are my findings:

python = continue
c = continue
vb = continue
d = continue
basic = continue
pascal = continue
php = continue
perl = next
javascript = continue
tcl = continue

I agree after conversations here, looking in dictionary and comparing to other
devices, that next makes sense, but most people who program do not program in
one language, thus, similarity to a degree is good.

But the choice between continue, next, repeat, again or whatever else may come
up is not a huge deal to me personally. I am forced to use a few different languages
and have to adapt to minor nuances like this all the time, so... before making
any changes to the naming, I would like to hear more feedback from others who
have not spoken yet about the topic.

For me to change continue to next or whatever is about a 10-15 minute job for
me, not a big deal and can be done at any time, so I am going to no act quickly,
but let there be some more discussion.

--
Jeremy Cowgar
http://jeremy.cowgar.com

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (Mike Sywensky) — Sun, 11 May 2008 15:38:00 GMT

posted by: Mike Sywensky 


Arthur Crump wrote:
> 
> Just another vote for 'next' rather than 'continue' in a for statement.
> 
> I am old enough to remember when 'next' was the end of a for statement
> instead of the much better 'end for' used now, but I think the proposal
> is a better use of .next'
> 
> Arthur Crump, Cheshire, UK.
> 
> ----------------------------
> Derek Parnell wrote:
> > 
> > Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
> > > 
> > > Continue has been added to Euphoria SVN. Continue is Exit's sibling.
> > 
> > 
> > But I seriously hope it is going to be renamed to something a lot more natural
> > such as 'next'.
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Derek Parnell
> > Melbourne, Australia
> > Skype name: derek.j.parnell

Although it may not make as much sense for someone learing euphoria as a first
language, I imagine most people are not using it as a first language.  

My guess is most people are coming from other languages such as VB or C.  'continue'
is what is used by both languages.  That is my vote.

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BEZIER CURVES

EUforum@topica.com (Les Rogers) — Sun, 11 May 2008 15:28:00 GMT

posted by: Les Rogers 



Hi 

I am working on a Bezier Curve Program.

I have the curve !!!

Cannot make it "rotate" 

Any Help ??

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (Arthur Crump) — Sun, 11 May 2008 14:58:00 GMT

posted by: Arthur Crump 


Just another vote for 'next' rather than 'continue' in a for statement.

I am old enough to remember when 'next' was the end of a for statement
instead of the much better 'end for' used now, but I think the proposal
is a better use of .next'

Arthur Crump, Cheshire, UK.

----------------------------
Derek Parnell wrote:
> 
> Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
> > 
> > Continue has been added to Euphoria SVN. Continue is Exit's sibling.
> 
> 
> But I seriously hope it is going to be renamed to something a lot more natural
> such as 'next'.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Derek Parnell
> Melbourne, Australia
> Skype name: derek.j.parnell

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Re: Naming of "continue"

EUforum@topica.com (Jeremy Cowgar) — Sun, 11 May 2008 14:46:00 GMT

posted by: Jeremy Cowgar 

Derek Parnell wrote:
> 
> I think of it in terms of 'iterations'.
> 
> 'next' (iteration) to me strongly suggests that the current iteration ceases
> to execute and control is immediately given to the next iteration of the loop,
> using the next value of the index/counter.
> 
> 'continue' (iteration) suggest that the current iteration continues executing.
> 
> 'repeat' (iteration) suggest that the current iteration is repeated using the
> same index value.
> 
> 'again' (iteration) is identical to 'repeat'.
> 

I was thinking more about it and common uses of the words that we may already
use. For instance, a CD player. A CD player on repeat mode will do as you say,
repeat the same song over and over. Continuous will loop from 1st song on CD
to last, then start again at the first. There is no again. But speaking in terms
of iterations, I think you are right, next makes the most sense in that context.

--
Jeremy Cowgar
http://jeremy.cowgar.com

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Re: Naming of "continue"

EUforum@topica.com (Derek Parnell) — Sun, 11 May 2008 14:24:00 GMT

posted by: Derek Parnell 

Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
> 
> We can name it whatever. I do not really care, what I like is the functionality 

I too like the functionality, but the name is also important.

I vote for 'next'.

I think of it in terms of 'iterations'.

'next' (iteration) to me strongly suggests that the current iteration ceases
to execute and control is immediately given to the next iteration of the loop,
using the next value of the index/counter.

'continue' (iteration) suggest that the current iteration continues executing.

'repeat' (iteration) suggest that the current iteration is repeated using the
same index value.

'again' (iteration) is identical to 'repeat'.

-- 
Derek Parnell
Melbourne, Australia
Skype name: derek.j.parnell

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (Bernie Ryan) — Sun, 11 May 2008 13:59:00 GMT

posted by: Bernie Ryan 



I'd prefer a more natural such as 'next'.

Bernie

My files in archive:
WMOTOR, XMOTOR, W32ENGIN, MIXEDLIB, EU_ENGIN, WIN32ERU, WIN32API 

Can be downloaded here:
http://www.rapideuphoria.com/cgi-bin/asearch.exu?dos=on&win=on&lnx=on&gen=on&keywords=bernie+ryan

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Re: Search EuForum glitch

EUforum@topica.com (Robert Craig) — Sun, 11 May 2008 13:47:00 GMT

posted by: Robert Craig 


CChris wrote:
> Rob/Junko:
> Could you add 2008 to the list of years available to start searching? When scrolling
> down the listbox, the last one I get is 2007.

OK, thanks for pointing that out.
It's fixed now.

Regards,
   Rob Craig
   Rapid Deployment Software
   http://www.RapidEuphoria.com

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Naming of "continue"

EUforum@topica.com (Jeremy Cowgar) — Sun, 11 May 2008 13:03:00 GMT

posted by: Jeremy Cowgar 


We can name it whatever. I do not really care, what I like is the functionality 

The reason I choose continue was due to familiarity. Most languages that have
such a keyword call it continue. I can see where either would work... i.e.

continue -- at top of loop
next -- next loop iteration

But, taken literally, what do either really mean?

continue -- execution?
continue -- with next token?

or

next -- token?
next -- statement?

So, after thinking about it, I felt neither was a perfect name, but continue
had on it's side name recognition. Neither was self evident but at least most
people know what continue is. Other languages that have a next keyword are usually
part of the for loop:

for 1 to 10 do
  print "Hello"
next

They are not put mid block, but are the same thing as our end for or end do.

Oh, I also did some research and I found several uses of function name next()
for iterating through lists, tokens, etc...

Other possible names I came up with are:

repeat, again, hm... tried to come up with others with no luck.

Out of: continue, next, repeat, again ... I think repeat or again makes much
more sense than continue or next. Here are definitions:

  continue
       v 1: continue a certain state, condition, or activity; "Keep on
            working!"; "We continued to work into the night"; "Keep
            smiling"; "We went on working until well past midnight"
       4: move ahead; travel onward in time or space; "We proceeded
          towards Washington"; "She continued in the direction of
          the hills"; "We are moving ahead in time now"

  next
       adj 1: nearest in space or position; immediately adjoining without
              intervening space; "had adjacent rooms"; "in the next
              room"; "the person sitting next to me"; "our rooms
              were side by side" [syn: adjacent, side by side(p)]
       3: immediately following in time or order; "the following day";
          "next in line"; "the next president"; "the next item on
          the list" [syn: following]

  repeat
       n : an event that repeats; "the events today were a repeat of
           yesterday's" [syn: repetition]
       v 1: to say, state, or perform again; "She kept reiterating her
            request" [syn: reiterate, ingeminate, iterate, restate,
             retell]
       2: make or do or perform again; "He could never replicate his
          brilliant performance of the magic trick" [syn: duplicate,
           reduplicate, double, replicate]
       3: happen or occur again; "This is a recurring story" [syn: recur]
       4: to say again or imitate; "followers echoing the cries of
          their leaders" [syn: echo]
       5: do over; "They would like to take it over again" [syn: take
          over]
       6: repeat an earlier theme of a composition [syn: reprise, reprize,
           recapitulate]

  again
       adv : anew; "she tried again"; "they rehearsed the scene again"
             [syn: once again, once more, over again]
1.      once more; another time; anew; in addition: Will you spell your name again,
please?
2.      in an additional case or instance; moreover; besides; furthermore.
3.      on the other hand: It might happen, and again it might not.
4.      back; in return; in reply: to answer again.
5.      to the same place or person: to return again.

Notice a few: next #1, #4 (there were other definitions that did not apply at
all to us, same as other words, so I did not include them). repeat #2, #3, #5.
Again did not have a good definition on dict.org, so I got it from dictionary.com...
again #1, #4

So, if we were to change from continue and loose the familiarity of it, I would
vote for repeat or again, not next. next has all the same problems as continue,
plus it is used in other languages as a keyword that does something different,
and it's a common function name.

Thoughts?

--
Jeremy Cowgar
http://jeremy.cowgar.com

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Re: sets for sequence.e?

EUforum@topica.com (Jeremy Cowgar) — Sun, 11 May 2008 12:22:00 GMT

posted by: Jeremy Cowgar 

CChris wrote:
> 
> 
> Done, though I may wish to add a few more unit tests. As usual, the tests themselves
> had way more problems than the code they tested.

That may be but it's vital that unit tests exist, for instance, it caught quite
a bit last change. One function was changed, and that function was tested with
a sample app and it worked. However, all the other functions that relied upon
the changed function began to fail.

> There is no .htx documentation yet, but it is in sets.e and would simply need
> to move from here to there with some format tags. I'm not sure I have time to
> do that next week (53 entries).

Really? 53 new functions?

> What's best?

Please put a 

-- TODO: document

At the beginning of each function that is a global and then commit. Before functions
go into SVN, they should be unit tested, however, not necessarily documented.
But, we must have an easy way to see which ones are not documented. An undocumented
function is one that does not exist to the public.

--
Jeremy Cowgar
http://jeremy.cowgar.com

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Search EuForum glitch

EUforum@topica.com (CChris) — Sun, 11 May 2008 12:19:00 GMT

posted by: CChris 



Rob/Junko:
Could you add 2008 to the list of years available to start searching? When scrolling
down the listbox, the last one I get is 2007.

CChris

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Re: sets for sequence.e?

EUforum@topica.com (CChris) — Sun, 11 May 2008 12:16:00 GMT

posted by: CChris 

Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
> 
> CChris wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > There is also
> > http://oedoc.free.fr/Fichiers/ESL/sets.zip
> > 
> > It's quite more complete, as it handles maps between sets and composition laws.
> > It was laid out and documented for inclusion in the ESL framework. But, if there
> > is interest, I can edit the ESL stuff out.
> > 
> 
> Chris,
> 
> If you would like to do that, thanks! Maybe it should be a new include, set.e
> and not part of sequence.e
> 
> --
> Jeremy Cowgar
> http://jeremy.cowgar.com

Done, though I may wish to add a few more unit tests. As usual, the tests themselves
had way more problems than the code they tested.

There is no .htx documentation yet, but it is in sets.e and would simply need
to move from here to there with some format tags. I'm not sure I have time to
do that next week (53 entries).

What's best?

CChris

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can_add() and linear()

EUforum@topica.com (CChris) — Sun, 11 May 2008 12:04:00 GMT

posted by: CChris 


I'd suggest two additions to sequence.e, which I hope will appear pretty natural:


global function can_add(object a,object b)
-- Determines whether a+b would crash the interpreter.
-- Returns 1 if addition possible, else 0.
    if atom(a) or atom(b) then
        return 1
    end if
    if length(a)!=length(b) then
        return 0
    end if
    for i=1 to length(a) do
        if not can_add(a[i],b[i]) then
            return 0
        end if
    end for
    return 1
end function

global funtion linear(object start,object increment,integer count)
-- Returns 0 on failure, or a sequence of count objects.
-- The first one is start, and the whole sequence is a linear progrssion using increment.
    sequence result

    if count<0 or not can_add(start,increment) then
        return 0
    end if
    result=repeat(start,count)
    for i=2 to count do
        start+=increment
        result[i]=start
    end for
    return result
end function


The latter might go to math.e just as well, but for its dependency on can_add().

CChris

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (CChris) — Sun, 11 May 2008 11:54:00 GMT

posted by: CChris 

Salix wrote:
> 
> > Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
> > > Continue has been added to Euphoria SVN. Continue is Exit's sibling.
> 
> Oh, at last! Thanks!
> 
> But I agree with Derek and I'd prefer a more natural such as 'next'.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Salix

Me too, antd that's how it's named in �.

But naming discussions are so ... , well, that I won't care how it gets eventually
named, as long as it stays in the language.

CChris

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (Salix) — Sun, 11 May 2008 11:46:00 GMT

posted by: Salix 


> Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
> > Continue has been added to Euphoria SVN. Continue is Exit's sibling.

Oh, at last! Thanks!

But I agree with Derek and I'd prefer a more natural such as 'next'.

Regards,

Salix

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (Derek Parnell) — Sun, 11 May 2008 10:29:00 GMT

posted by: Derek Parnell 


Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
> 
> Continue has been added to Euphoria SVN. Continue is Exit's sibling.


But I seriously hope it is going to be renamed to something a lot more natural
such as 'next'.


-- 
Derek Parnell
Melbourne, Australia
Skype name: derek.j.parnell

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Re: New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (CChris) — Sun, 11 May 2008 09:46:00 GMT

posted by: CChris 


Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
> 
> Continue has been added to Euphoria SVN. Continue is Exit's sibling.
> 
> 
> for i = 1 to length(lines) do
>     if length(lines[i]) = 0 or lines[i][1] = '#' then 
>         continue -- start loop at next iteration
>     end if
> 
>     -- You know the line has data and is not a comment line
>     -- process the line
> end for
> 
> 
> --
> Jeremy Cowgar
> http://jeremy.cowgar.com

This one was sorely needed! Thanks!

CChris

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New keyword added: continue

EUforum@topica.com (Jeremy Cowgar) — Sun, 11 May 2008 09:43:00 GMT

posted by: Jeremy Cowgar 


Continue has been added to Euphoria SVN. Continue is Exit's sibling.


for i = 1 to length(lines) do
    if length(lines[i]) = 0 or lines[i][1] = '#' then 
        continue -- start loop at next iteration
    end if

    -- You know the line has data and is not a comment line
    -- process the line
end for


--
Jeremy Cowgar
http://jeremy.cowgar.com

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Re: iupeu and fedora 7

EUforum@topica.com (Jeremy Cowgar) — Sun, 11 May 2008 05:37:00 GMT

posted by: Jeremy Cowgar 

jacques desch�nes wrote:
> 
> I downloaded  imagelib.e and imagelib.ew is now working.
> I delete addressbook.edb that was already existing and addressbook.ew created
> a new one and now it works fine.

Ok. Maybe SVN corrupted the edb file. That's one thing I didn't try. I'll remove
the edb file from SVN and I'll make AddressBook add a few dummy records during
create.

> by the way I downloaded CD5  for open watcom 1.5 I have open watcom 1.7 installed
> but I don't have any idea how to convert the *.lib files into DLL. I would be
> ready to wrap the CD5 library if I had the dll working.

OOOooooo! That would be FANTASTIC! I can give you SVN access to you can commit
to SVN. From:

http://www.tecgraf.puc-rio.br/iup/en/download_tips.html

You can download different types of files for different libs associated with
Iup. There are some files named such as: 

cd5_0_Win32_dll_lib.zip

which should get you the already compiled dll files. That's what I do for windows.
Much easier than compiling the project for windows.

Send me an email with a username and password, and I will create an SVN account
for you. Thank you!

--
Jeremy Cowgar
http://jeremy.cowgar.com

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Re: iupeu and fedora 7

EUforum@topica.com (jacques desch�nes) — Sun, 11 May 2008 02:46:00 GMT

posted by: jacques desch�nes 


I downloaded  imagelib.e and imagelib.ew is now working.
I delete addressbook.edb that was already existing and addressbook.ew created
a new one and now it works fine.

by the way I downloaded CD5  for open watcom 1.5 I have open watcom 1.7 installed
but I don't have any idea how to convert the *.lib files into DLL. I would be
ready to wrap the CD5 library if I had the dll working.

thanks again.

jacques deschenes

Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
> 
> jacques desch�nes wrote:
> > 
> > I finally succeed to install openmotif 2.3.0 (tried and older version but didn't
> > work).
> > 
> > examples that works:
> 
> Great! Thanks for posting this and being the first to give IupEu a try on RedHat.
> I'll add your info to the wiki so others do not have to go through the hassle
> you did.
>  
> > examples that fail:
> > imagelib.ew  (missing iupimagelib.e)
> > addressbook.ew  (display a windows with: "could not open or create database)
>  
> Hm. I do not know how iupimagelib.e got left out of the .zip file. You can get
> it directly here:
> 
> http://jeremy.cowgar.com/svn/iupeu/trunk/include/iupimagelib.e
> 
> As for the Address Book not creating the database, weird. It is using EDS. I
> just tried removing the database from my examples directory and running it,
> it was created fine (ArchLinux). I then went to Windows and it worked also.
> Is there a permissions problem? It's simple and just creates the database in
> the current directory. 
> 
> --
> Jeremy Cowgar
> http://jeremy.cowgar.com

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